Episode #47 Toxic Teams with Jinan Budge
“I’m calling it. I’m calling toxicity as something we need to ‘out’.”
— Jinan Budge
Jinan leads Forrester’s security and risk research in Asia Pacific. Jinan’s research focuses on enabling the success of the chief information security officer (CISO) role; creating transformational cybersecurity strategies; and building security awareness, behaviour, and culture programs at the heart of a security strategy.
Jinan is a champion for diversity and inclusion in security and brings a local and global perspective and cultural lens to her research and practice. Jinan’s research remains pragmatic, as she recently returned to Forrester after several years as director of cyber strategy at Transport for NSW and a similar role with Qantas Airlines.
Jinan has built, stood up, and delivered significant cybertransformation strategies across the public and private sectors. She is an experienced people leader and international keynote speaker, and she's passionate around her purpose in the security field. Jinan holds two bachelor’s degrees in science and commerce from the Australian National University.
When Jinan posted a simple question on social media about her research into the toxicity in cybersecurity teams, it exploded! 'We have all experienced toxicity, whether we've been leaders or we've been led'. In this episode Jinan shares how it enabled people to share their experiences, what she learnt and how she hopes to drive positive change in cybersecurity culture.
Links
Time Stamps
00:58 What lead the research on toxic culture in security teams
02:18 “If you're serious about security, you have to retain talent. And you have to create a positive culture for people to stay in”
03:00 What happened with Jinan asked “what are the different causes of toxicity in cyber security specifically?”
03:24 “the experiences that people shared, I have to tell you, it was both heartbreaking and enriching”
05:03 The number one cause of toxicity in security teams and why
06:46 “…what I do like about the top 10 is that I managed to break it down a little bit…”
09:33 What if the CISO is causing the toxicity, and not the environment around them?
12:29 The future of the CISO - the 6 different types of CISOs and knowing who you are or what you want
13:29 “having that self awareness, what is your type? What is your leadership type”
14:55 Why a good mindspace can lead to better leadership
17:04 “the impact of your behaviour as a leader, how you're managing yourself, how you're managing your team has got huge impact on others”
17:53 Tips on turning a toxic culture around to retain employees who may be tired of previous leader habits
21:24 Steps to take when interviewing that could help identify a toxic predisposition
22:50 “… important to check for cultural fit and trust, versus only technical skills…”
23:33 The impact remote working has had on security teams that potentially had a toxic culture
28:16 “it's much harder to hide toxic behaviour, (it) comes to the surface a lot easier than it did in an office environment”